Friday, April 24, 2009

Hamari Sanskriti, Hamara culture ??????

After reading a blog through Times of India I started thinking about "our INDIAN culture" & "our values". Arent we Indians these days using these catchphrases too often in the recent times??? What could be the reason for this shielding phrases?? Are we trying to hide something that is not so holy by using these kind of phrases?

Well to go into the depth of the matter, lets take our great "RAM SENE" and their wonderful ideology. It seems Sene is shouting at the top of its voice and telling us to go back in time to 1950's and 1960's because somehow we have lost "OUR INDIAN VALUES" and have become western!!!! Who are these "RAM SENE" people? They are a bunch of narrow minded, 'Ajeeb log' who wear Pant & Shirt and use Cellphones for communicating with their group workers, beat up girls and prove their masculinity to whom I dont know!!!! I really dont know who told these kind of hypocrites that Indian Culture is to live in the last century??? Some people say that it is because of democracy that "inke par nikal aaye hai"!! Well I totally disagree to these bunch of so called sensible people as well. Blaming democracy for all the wrong happenings is like being in a mode of denial! We sometimes think that "Indian Culture" is like pickles that can be stored and preserved in tight bottles with preservatives like Ram Sene in it. 

We are very much aware of the movie by Madhur Bhandarkar, Page 3. All that happened in the movie, all the realtionships are somehow called ajeeb rishte. Is it actually correct? Well yes and no. Yes that most of the happenings on Page 3 are "Ajeeb" but the news that we see as headlines on the front page is also quite Ajeeb as far as the so called "Indian Culture" is concerned. A 45 yr old father raped his 4 yr daughter, One tantric trying to woo people by his tactics... All this cannot be influence of the west, can it be??? But whom to blame?? These fathers and tantrics might not be pubbing or doing stuff that many think is influence from the west and is not "Indian", but whatever they are doing, is it right and "Indian" ? 

When I think about the "Traditional Indian values", I think from where does this "tradition" come from? If you think about our epics, The Mahabharata and The Ramayana could they be 2 of the most important sources reflecting our traditions?? Let me breif you up with The Mahabharata.TheMahabharata’s fundamental premise is about brothers killing brothers, about putting what is truly right above what the tag of a relationship is. On the other hand, Draupadi is “shared” between almost half a dozen brothers and it is her brother in law who attempts to strip her in public – after her husband(s) gamble her away, no less! Karna, a character who had more – well, I’ll just say guts – than most characters in the epic, is “illegitimate”, so he needs to be generally disowned for the family’s good name, and can only tell his mother that she would have five sons standing at the end of the day, anyways. He is the outcast. What role the “legitimate” Nakul and Sahdeva had in the whole tale still mystifies me, but they were allowed to hang around everywhere since they were above board, I guess. What genuine family bonding! My intention was not to point fingers at such a great epic, but I want to point out to those narrow minded bunch of people, that Tradition and Values tell you to do things in the right way. Brothers faught brothers because the second set of brothers were wrong in their doings. Is that wrong? Draupadi is shared by half a dozen brothers because of a promise by Yudhisthira and she simply supports her husband as she is his better half! Is that wrong? Karna was illegitimate but was truthful to his heart and a true warrior. All this might not sound wrong but just in the literal sense it sounds absurd!

The Ramayana is not very family-friendly either, is it? The entire backdrop for the exile came from within the extended ruling family of Ayodhya. And while Bharat (and Shatrughan, who, like Nakul and Sahdev, seems to be talked about primarily for being related to those who mattered) thought that he should worship his brother’s footwear, Ram himself was not particularly fastidious when it came to equations between other pairs of brothers – Bali had to be killed by Ram for Sugriva to get his crown, and when it came to Lanka, the popular saying Ghar ka bhedi Lanka dhaaye serves to give Vibhishana a permanent recall value, even if by means of a quite a left handed compliment. At the end of it all, what was the entire Lanka episode about, if a washerman’s perspective – not his own – was enough for Ram, the King, to ask Sita to now bring certifiable qualities? All it proves is that our obsessiveness with people thinking socially well of us, no matter what we may individually stand for, goes back a long, long way.

I think we handle our ‘social’ values somewhat in the same way we handle the power hierarchy. In visual terms, I sometimes find the red beacon on the vehicle and the redbindi on the forehead to be statements in a fairly similar tone – symbolising (a) respectability and legitimacy and (b) ‘keep off’ status!

We are, after all, obsessed with ‘status’ messages, socially and personally, and the ‘tag’ of a legitimate relationship is so socially aspirational, the way the safe government job is in the cow belt interior – even more so in recession time! Kitne Ajeeb…

This article was based on one of the articles I read and some of my views... But sometime I really feel that its not the Traditions and Values that should be a concern for us.... There is something more important than them!! What do u think???

- Karan.

13 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hi Karan, I came across your blog via some acquaintance of mine. So dropping a few lines to put across some thoughts that occurred to me after reading it. Quite interesting flow of thought and got me thinking. I have not followed the blog you have pointed referred to in your post, so there might be some loss of perspective when reading your post.

I feel some soft of disillusion at best and aversion at worst towards "Hamari sanskriti, Hamara culture". The term when used by the likes of Ram Sene gives it a much more diabolical and sinister meaning. The funny part is that even the intelligentsia and and educated elite of our country are not able to discern the subtle "engineering" of messages and thus their effects. While most people are easily able to catch the lack of substance in the claims by Muthalik Inc, they are unable to read the non-existence of any credibility of such crass lot amongst the vast majority of the people, AND YET (caps for emphasis), buy into the so-called scholarly claims of Muthalik Inc that they really CAN COMMENT on anything related to Hamari sanskriti and Hamara Culture.

Now the long trajectory from Sri Ram Sene to Ramayana and Mahabharata is not easy for me to understand. The epics Ramayana and Mahabharata are NOT a depiction of IDEAL world if you ever thought it to be so, it was never intended to be. It is but a depiction of a part of history that has been transmitted down the ages first verbally and then at a very later stage in a written form. It shows the characters with all their warts, no one is shown to be perfect. The thing IMHO is to look at what it is behind the "worldly tamasha" of multiple lives, and conspiracies. Karna IS one of the greatest gifts to Indian civilization, and that is properly accepted in the Mahabharat itself.

Symbolism IS an important part of Indian civlization, its a matter of opinion if it is desirable to some or not. Have you noticed ISRO chairman gifting a model PSLV to the PM in a ceremony for dedicating the Chandra Yaan to the nation? There it is, another instance of symbolism. Taking ashirwad from ones parents by touching their feet is just another instance, be it Kanyakumari, Dwarka, Manipur or Kashmir. Touch parents feet is not a "slavish" act in a classical western sense of the word but a mark of respect and devotion. So equating ALL symbolism with power hierarchy is not always true, it can be seen that way only if seen from a narrow sense.

Now these are just some "localized" counter statements to your post, not in anyway meant to show lack of respect to your views. But in a sense, healthy debate is the corner stone of "Hamari sanskriti" and not demagoguery of some kind of revealed one final word! If you are interested I can give you some pointers to give some more light towards the misogynist streak we see amongst some section of socalled "Hindutva". This small slice is the reason why a universal concept of "Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam" "Sarva Dharma Samabhava" are shadowed.

I would love to know more about your thoughts in the upcoming blog posts, the thoughts are well articulated and have been arrived via deep introspection BUT with not with a more diverse sources of information.

All the above in my humble opinion. If you find my comment offensive, please feel free to delete it. My post is in the spirit of discussion on a public internet blog.

Thanks a lot for giving me a means to see with additional perspective some of the things I see in this world and especially Bharat.

Anonymous said...

Hi Karan,
good flow and efficient presentation of thoughts. Just to have a healthy disucssion :
Do you know reason : Why Ram killed Bali? Please read the entire story.

You last para says "Its not the Traditions and Values that should be a concern for us.... There is something more important than them!!"

Will you please enlist those IMPORTANT things which should be our concern? If you have used at least 2 hrs to read the news, articles and write this blog, then you should devote 2 years of life in working in practise on those concerned IMPORTANT things. So, we can believe that you don't give important to Traditions and Values. (The law of averages)

Karan said...

@ Anonymous No.1 : Thank you for your views... I really appreciate the time you have invested in reading my views...and then replying to them

@ Anonymous No. 2 : I really am in awe with the vision u have... I thought only the aging politicians of our country were the last surviving amongst ur types...but there u are!! u proved me wrong... :) Anyway no hard feelings...thank u for ur views... And about the list of Important stuff that we should do..I just listed one in my post..read between the lines..

katchdoze said...

Hi Karan,

I might sound bit harsh over here, but your article does seem to lack the "deeper" thought process about which you are referring to.
When one sees Mahabharat as a story of war between brothers, deeper understanding about the epic seems to have been totally missed. I would assume you have not read up much on Mahabharat or rather have misread it.
Why Bali is killed by Ram or why Vibhishan sides Ram in the war against Ravana again needs a good reading and understanding of the epic.

Again you seem to be lost when you refer to "Samskriti or Traditional Indian Values" when you refer to Mahabarat and Ramayana as the only source of Tradition. You should read Vedas/upanishads/Manusmriti and so on to really understand what Indian Culture means and stands for.

As Anomymous 1 sums it up, "Vasudiva Kutumbakam" is simple but having implication, is a vision which not even the most "advanced" cultures have envisioned.

Would advice deeper reading and understanding before putting such view points which more or less are trying to undermine one sect's religious scriptures than actually addressing the relevant topic you wanted to address at the start of the article.

I would like to question you why I should not equate you to Mr Mutalik, who is also trying to impress upon his views by lowering someone's long held belief using wrong means.

Anonymous said...

I'm Anonymous No. 2:

Hi Karan,
You seems to depressed by my comments. Brother, this is my attempt to get out the bests from you (Because I know you can do much better than writing such "Ajeeb" controversial stuff)

I again read your article, and again failed to understand what are those IMPORTANT things which you would like to do, to have better India. Sorry, I am simple person - And its impossible for me get sense of the reading between lines (specially when those actual lines are non-sense). Anyway, I hope, you will work on those IMPORTANT things, and involve rest of the community, as well.

vrushali said...

:) aahhhhaaa....i guess this post was a controversy magnet!

Well, I also do not agree with your opinions completely, but I guess we never have ;)

I still believe you would have done better...keep posting.

Karan said...

@ Hi Mr Anonymous 2 :

Its a pity that I have to explain this to u. But what do u think abt a Father raping his 4 yr old daughter? Do u think its an important cause to tackle for India or trying to save our Indian Culture by beating up girls in pub? When do u think we will realize one fact that if democracy is not a weapon its a tool!! I appreciate your feedback but I am really sorry for my "NONSENSE"! What to do, but I think somehow this nonsense is eating our country. My dear friend the reason to put our epics as examples was not to raise fingers against them..Here is where u read between the lines... I have written that it was the situation that made them do that. So if all that what Yudhishtira did or Ram did if u n me do it today people will say u have no culture!!! So, culture is like pickles in the bottle which u shud keep stored for years together and make sure it remains the same???? Is it??? Anyway, it is sad that I had to explain my post!! But, I am happy that people have views... The reason why I left the last para open to all was because of this reason. Its not pretty innovative of me to sight out the problems of India because we very well know it. But how many think its imp??? Simple eg I have 2 posts on Elections b4 this one..How many have commented there??? None... Why?? because we know that its imp to vote, but do we?

I AM NOT DEPRESSED BY YOUR COMMENTS BUT I AM AFRAID ABOUT THE FACT THAT MANY THINK LIKE U!!!

Anyway, its about opinion. I have mine n u have urs...!!

Thank you for commenting and giving me reasons to post such stuff...


@ Katchdoze

Its really amazing how we tend to not understand the meaning and run around with facts! I understand facts give the true meaning but do u think my point was to explain our epics or point fingers at them???? My dear fren if u read carefully after my view abt epics I have written that whatever either Yudhistira, Ram, Draupadi, Sita did was essential keeping the situation in mind!! But imagine if u do the same now, do u think our so called "Indian Culture" would accept it???

And about other sources, Plz read the post again. I have mentioned these 2 epics are 2 of the most important sources. I didnt say that they are the only 2 sources.

About u equating me to Mr. Muthalik. Well thanks for the compliment but unfortunately I have no guts to beat up women because unfortunately I know one fact that I am on this Earth because of one of them!!! And about me impressing on someone's view..I never mentioned anywhere that this is the whole truth. Its my opinion and u might have urs. :)

Thanks for ur opinion, it has driven my faith towards my belief.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Karan Menon,

I have gone thru' the entire post and comments. It has become a fashion and passion to criticize anything and everything that is Indian. I do not agree with the violent part of Muthalik but...he has a point. Is dancing and boozing the only way to lead a life? And where has it lead the westerners to? They have broken relationships, girls who are 13 years old become mothers, almost everybody has depression and is on some medication or the other.

The reason for all this is too much freedom for both boys and girls. Why do American born Indian guys want to marry girls from India only...because they still believe that India has its traditions and values which you ridiculed as Hamari Sanskruthi...etc

Now, coming to Ramayana and Mahabharatha, just like any other sickular person, all you could see was draupadi having 5 husbands and Sita being driven to the forest. Every yug has its dharma and they follow it. Following Indian culture doesn't mean you share your wife or send her away. Take the core principles of Dharma, raj neethi. During Muslim invasion, the ladies performed Sati....are the present Indian women doing so? Why not? Because there is no need to.

At the same time, the whole world runs on principles of its own. Gay marriages have become the thing of the day? Do you support them? Why does majority of the world still scorn illegitimate children? I have been in the states for more than 12 years now and I know how difficult it is for single women to bring up their kids, why so? I am not talking about financial situation, it is the emotional burden. Are they too following Indian Dharma? If the present day scenario itself makes it difficult for single women, can you imagine Kunthi hugging Karna???

Before you comment, learn to read the time frame and the conditions then. Learn to look at the Dharma that is there. Ram as king decided that all his people should be happy, so he heeded to the washer man. Sita followed her husband's choice and went to the forest. She didn't do a protest or hadtal or Pink chaddi campaign. She would have gone because of her love for her husband. When she went to the forest with her husband on her own to accompany him, she would have left on her own too. And Rama as the present day man could have stayed back where he was and went back to Ayodhya and ruled, married another woman and so on. Why did he have to go to Lanka and fight for her?? Nobody forced him to. The love (I hate to use this word as it has become so cheap these days, every guy uses this to get into bed with the girl he fancies) between husband and wife is what is important there. Kindly read the texts before you comment. I can comment easily too after seeing your choice of movies.

varadraj bapat said...

i m sorry i disagree with u Karan ji.

Karan said...

@ Mr Anonymous 3 :

I actually did not wish to reply to ur comment because of ur wonderful views about Gays and Women going to pubs. According to u gay people are regarded as untouchables or let me put it this way "ABNORMAL"!! So they shouldnt have a happy life !!! Great!! And secondly, women going to pub is a taboo on Indian society but men going to pubs is not a taboo thats why no one dared to beat up a man!! Cool thoughts man!! You seem to be next in line to Mr Muthalik!! Great job!! Continue but till Indians like me exist ur thoughts would be crushed always!! I promise that...

Also, it is a fashion to be in a "MODE OF DENIAL"! Problem is we still dont want to accept that there is some loophole which is creating a problem for us, instead we believe that whatever is happening with us or with the country has "videshi haat" in it!!

Wonderful thoughts!! So, in a country where u boast abt ur democracy u wish to break the most important rule of democracy. And, in a democracy its ur personal choice to make or break ur future!! If people go to pub, whats wrong in it? What about the father who raped his 4 yr old daughter?? How many pubs did he go???

It is easy to say that India is great because of its culture but we should be careful that this "Culture" that we are boasting about should not be a factor for others to divide us!

I am amazed by ur ideas!!

This is why I posted this. You wanted the pub girls or other women in India do exactly what Sita did!! Sita was not harassed!! Whatever she did for her it was her dharma!! But do u wanna say that it is ur dharma to beat up girls because they are doing what they wish???

When "MEN" like u go to pubs and bars its perfectly ok!! But when an "Indian" woman goes she has broken the "Maryada"!!

I am sorry guys, but I totally disagree to whatever u guys said!!

Its ur view but I am sad about the fact that its ur pretty strong opinion as well!!!

@ Mr Varadraj Bapat

Thank you for your views. I wasnt interested to make anyone agree to my views. I just presented them!

But views without reason, is like a firing a bow without an arrow!!

But, its ok I accept it. And I am NOT sorry for presenting my view which made u unhappy!!

Anonymous said...

This is Anonymous 3. Thank you for re-considering and replying to me. I re-read my post after your so called allegations to see why in the world did you get the impression, but I am lost.

1) Did I ever support the violence of Mr. Muthalik
2) did I ever say that only girls need to be beaten up?
3) All I asked is "Is boozing and dancing the only definition of enjoyment"?
4) Did I support or claim that gays are abnormal?
Read man!! You need to read and then post a reply. Living in a democratic country and coming from a democratic country, yes, I believe in live and let live. But, that doesn't mean violating the code of conduct and again, this applies to both men and women.

The biggest loophole in our system is guys who think that it is hip to deny everything Indian. We do not need a videshi haath, our so called swadeshi tv channels are enough.

Let me tell you about Valentine's day in US. It is not a public display of romance as is in India. It is a very private affair. It is only in India we give so much of hype to Valentine's Day which is getting ugly just like ragging in colleges. So, 10 years before people in India did not enjoy life as there were no pubs or were very limited in their number and access.
People did not love their spouses or GFs/BFs because we did not hear much about Valentine's Day.

You have been harping about the 4 year old's rape by her dad...this is the perverted mentality of any human being. If you think that Hindu Dharma is the cause, then I do not have words. Read Papers and watch world news, you will hear more horrifying truths. Yes, that should be thoroughly condemned but I do not see the connection you are trying to establish between that incident and our Culture.

Anonymous said...

One thing we guys have to confess - we are not expert on understanding the mahabaratas and the ramayanas. Even experts falter. So, please donot even touch such subjects.

Ultimatley What makes sense is commons sense.

Anonymous said...

hello there

i read your post as well as the original post. i think both have just looked at mahabharata and ramayana superficially without even understanding why it happened. you say - On the other hand, Draupadi is “shared” between almost half a dozen brothers . Do you even know the reason for this ? draupadi was given a boon by lord shiva upon asking for a husband with 'five' ideal qualities in her previous birth. for shiva it was impossible to find such a match, but draupadi was adamant and wanted to marry five men with one such quality each. so shiva granted that boon and hence in her re-incarnation she had to marry five men. its more of destiny/karma than character or culture. the single thread that ties all events of mahabharata are dharma/karma.

the topic of the post was good, refering to our culture system. but bringing mahabharata and ramayana without studying them modestly, let alone deeply was not a good thing to do.every yug has its dharma and karma cycle.

my only request as an indian is, if you are touching upon subject of mahabharata or ramayana, please 'research'. do not just mere quote what others have written as this would give a third person an impression that these epics are just about brothers fighting brothers or polyandry.

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